User talk:Zombiedude101

You've been temporarily blocked from editing for your edits to Security Cadet and Security Officer

Please don't copy/paste content from other sources without ensuring that it is permitted by the license. Also do not post content on the wiki which contains slurs or other content which violates Wizard's Den rules. Chief Engineer (talk) 16:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Chief, to be clear some of it was content I had contributed to on the OLD shitsec rules but the rest I had pasted over from before. What slurs were in there? I did a ctrl + f and couldnt see anything that stood out, racial or otherwise. Zombiedude101 (talk) 18:29, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

iirc it contained uses of "retard" which WizDen considers a slur, I think it also contained things like references to ethnic cleansing. I understand that on /tg/ the page isn't actually intended to be followed, but not only do we have zero tolerance rules disallowing some of the content in it, players have gotten confused about the wiki in the past and cited what most SS13 players would understand as a clear joke as something that is intended to be followed.

The other issue with the edits was the copyright issue. The license that /tg/'s wiki uses isn't apparent to me, so I'm presuming that it just can't be copied, but if you can provide a link to a license then that'd change things. Having contributed to part of the list doesn't mean that you can copy the whole list over. If you wrote some of the list items entirely on your own, rather than modifying existing ones, then you likely would be able to copy that over even if it wouldn't normally be allowed to copy over content, but you'd need to be able to provide sufficient evidence that you were the person who actually created it for us to allow it. Chief Engineer (talk) 19:24, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, I've just done some digging and it looks the current /tg/station Shitcurity article isn't even the original as the edits I made went back to 2011 - 2012, and likely it was plagiarised from across the varying wikis. Paradise, BeeStation and otherwise all have similar pages, so I don't think copyright is a concern here. I can't provide empiric proof, except that a chunk of the lines I contributed to. Some of them go back to a time where 'retard' wasn't really considered a slur so much as a casual insult, and while I get you don't want it, please don't jump on people for using it without giving them a chance to learn it's not acceptable first, as it can be quite a culture shock - I say this as someone who has dealt with actual abelist discrimination IRL too. As for the rule breaking - well I understand you probably don't want certain phrases being bandies about, but a common sense approach could've been taken - did it seem clear to you that my intent was to offend or cause problems? Could've easily removed the phrases and reminded me. I admittedly hadn't typed them out myself and just copied and pasted. Zero tolerance should not mean zero context or zero common sense. Next time, please keep that in mind. Having this of all things hold up the removal of my 'admitted to being underaged' ban for joking "im 12 what is this" in response for some weirod trying to ERP with me Zombiedude101 (talk) 13:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@:: Copyright is still a concern even if the content being copied is from another source. For copyright to not be a concern, it'd generally need to fall into one of three categories: it is not protected by copyright, the person posting it owns the copyright, or it is being posted in compliance with a license that is compatible with the license we use on this wiki. To my knowledge, none of those are true for the content that you copied from /tg/'s wiki, and I don't think that'd change even if a substantial part of the content copied from /tg/ was first copied to /tg/ from other wikis. This all also assumes that the content copied to /tg/ was public domain or had a license that allowed unrestricted use, which is typically not the case.

I'm not sure why you feel you've been jumped on, but I can try to explain why the wiki actions were taken. You received a 3 day block from editing. Unless I misconfigured it, it should have allowed you to edit this page to provide responses or comments to my message during that block. The block considered all aspects of the situation, ranging from the copyright issue which I still believe was a copyright issue to the inclusion of slurs and references to ethnic cleansing and the fact that, iirc, you were recently banned from two of our other platforms. I believe you when you say that you didn't read the contents of what you added, and that you just copy/pasted it, but that doesn't absolve you from responsibility for posting it, and it's somewhat reckless to blindly copy/paste content like that. The decision to block rather than to simply warn also took into consideration the fact that the wiki receives low monitoring, I am one of the few people with the ability to respond to issues on the wiki and I typically only become aware of them when someone else draws my attention to them. While it wasn't clear to me from your wiki actions that your intent was to offend anyone, several staff did get the impression that you were trying to cause problems based on your actions across all of our platforms and I think at least one felt that you should be indefinitely banned from the wiki, indefinite bans are our typical response to zero tolerance rule violations.

This isn't the place to litigate any issues related to your game ban appeal, but I didn't introduce the wiki ban into your game ban appeal discussion. If you feel your game ban appeal, or any other staff interaction, was handled inappropriately, you can make a staff complaint on the forums. If you just want to understand what led to certain decisions or actions, there are a lot of different options for that. Replies here are fine for questions about the wiki block or edit removal, though I may be slow to notice them. For questions about game admin actions, you can send a message to game admins on the forums or, if it's related to your appeal and the thread is still open, you can ask directly on the appeal. For things related to moderation outside of the game servers, including wiki moderation, you can contact community moderators with a forum message. You can also try to use the #admin-message channel on Discord for any of these things which might lead to a faster response, but an admin or community moderator might direct you somewhere else. Chief Engineer (talk) 00:35, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I mean, the only reason I'm bringing it up is because it was mentioned in my game ban appeal. I might seem a little agitated, because well I do feel a bit jumped on, if I am being honest. I get your rationale for taking action (and dont really fault you personally) on the wiki but with respect to SS14 in general I've felt the response has been disproportionate from your admin team to issues that didn't need. Joking "im 12 what is this" (which is one of the oldest memes out there) when ahelping an ERPer led to someone banning me several hours after the fact despite actually talking with admins at the time. It then took them a week to unban me because they wanted to deliberate over some irrelevant stuff. Separately, I got banned from discord for what felt like "you questioned our decision, so thats rules lawyering" all because I posted a photo of the singularity (not who had died, what was going on in round) near end of round to point out how cool the shader effects (the lensing / distortion) were and said it was functionally no different or no less round ruining than posting a photo of a vending machine. A few days previously to that, someone kicked me for asking whether it was against the rules to sing songs with risque content under the mistaken assumption I was trolling, and nobody has addressed the issue on discord in my appeal as of yet and I'm not confident in your complaints process to address it. Context and common sense need to be applied, and let's face it - did any of my actions ruin someone's round, or cause someone harm? I doubt it, and at the end of the day that's what the rules are there for - to make the experience fun and safe for everyone, not for their own sake.

Regarding the Copyright Issue, I've looked between the varying wikis where the same 'Shitcurity' pasta was located and it all falls under either GNU or Creative Commons, and being realistic no litigation is going to come out of it given this is something that has been copied from SS13 wiki to SS13 wiki over the last decade. So I think that's clear. I obviously don't support bigotry (I will admit, when younger I used 'retard' habitually but most of us did, and I'm someone who was technically a special needs kid due to ASD) so again, sorry for that. For what it's worth, I think part of the problem you will have is that the SS14 wiki is still fairly barebones, so people fall back to SS13 which does have some fair info, but also some info that gives players the impression that SS14 has minimal difference. The ingame crafting guides (chemicals, engineering, botany) and job guides need to be replicated to the wiki, or made accessible to view online. They might become out of date, but I think a portal where it can be viewed would be great.I've made a few more edits to other articles, there's a History of Space Station 14 page which gives some background for what SS13 was, and what SS14, SS Unity and SSMV will be etc. Clown has also got an update too, because I think it needed making clear that being a clown is not a license to grief and release the singularity at roundstart.Zombiedude101 (talk) 12:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

For the moderator and game admin actions on Discord and in-game, I'm not going to litigate or investigate those things here because it's far from the platform for it. Among other issues, anything done here is going to inherently have low visibility and discoverability. Regarding your lack of response on your Discord ban appeal, unfortunately very few community moderators participate in the ban appeals process, considering they're all volunteers, there's not much that can be done to make them participate. If project mangers were aware of a high rate of inappropriate mod actions by a community moderator, I'm sure that moderator would either be talked to or removed from their position, but I'm not aware of that currently being the case for any community moderator. Regarding your lack of confidence in the staff complaints process, I unfortunately can't do much other than to point to the public processed complaints. Staff complaints about game admins are typically processed by a head game admin, staff complaints about all other staff are processed by project managers. I put a significant amount of effort into the staff complaints that I process to ensure that they're processed appropriately and I hope that others who process them do the same. I'm not trying to say that the staff complaints process is perfect, but if for some reason a staff complaint doesn't address a situation appropriately, then it's unlikely that any other complaint avenue is going to get it addressed any better.

For the copyright stuff, the section was reported to me as copy/pasted from /tg/. It appeared to me to be copy/pasted from there, I think you've admitted that it was actually sourced from there, and I wasn't able to find a license that allows it to be copy/pasted from there to here. It doesn't matter to me if the copyright violation is an imminent legal threat, or if the copyright holder is unable to litigate the issue because of a lack of knowledge, resources, or whatever, it's still a copyright issue. If you have another source with the exact same text and that text was the source of the /tg/ text rather than being a copyright violation itself, then copy/pasting the text wouldn't be a copyright issue. For it to not get deleted again you'd need to provide attribution to the edit, even if the license doesn't require it, since it currently seems like the source is /tg/'s wiki. That all said, you'd still not be able to include parts that violate our rules about slurs/hate speech/discrimination/etc.

While I agree that the current wiki content is bare, I don't think it's necessarily an issue if people come to the conclusion that there are currently minimal differences between SS13 and SS14. We have plenty of players as it is. Additionally, I don't think copy/pasted content from a SS13 wiki is likely to be beneficial to the SS14 wiki, nor do I think it'll help to set SS14 apart from SS13. Someone on Discord is currently discussing having recipe pages manually updated here, and I've told them that I'd be willing to unlock the currently locked pages if maintainers are convinced to allow it. While I haven't read through your other edits, I appreciate you putting in work to try to improve the wiki. Chief Engineer (talk) 20:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll be frank, the lazy, half baked response to my discord appwal after over a month of radio silence doesn't instill confidence in me here. Rejecting with a "repeat of previous behaviour" comment when it clearly wasn't (unless posting 2 photos that didn't spoil the round qualifies) is not acceptable to me. And again, if I'm being blunt... while you seem fair enough in your manner, if this is how your mod team approaches people, all you will get is people disinterested in engaging with the WizDen tesm. It's clear a ton of people have lost faith already with the SSMV business. I say this with honest, constructive critique intended here. WizDen is the face of SS14 in many respects and your team's heavy handed approach does them no favours.Zombiedude101 (talk) 20:12, 28 July 2024 (UTC)